The real purpose of the Farmer Algorithm update
Over the years Google has always relied on a tried and true method of curbing the manipulation of its search algorithm. They take a few well known sites and spank them. Matt Cutts releases a new algo udate post indicating that they now have a way of using the algo to take down sites that don’t fit G’s guidelines and the webverse takes a cumulative dump in its boxers. The example sites are bandied about in forums and leading websites and everyone speculates on the how and why and what this means to them. Google is branded as evil by the losers and cheered by the winners. Happens every time…
Did Google really eliminate all the content farms with this update? Did they really remove all the low quality content from the serps? C’mon… What they did was set an example by slamming some of the most conspicuous violators knowing full well that the marketing establishment would get the word out lickety split. And it did – in record time no less.
Article directories exist for two reasons – to provide adsense earnings for the owner and a backlink for the writers. Those owners and writers who pretend they exist to provide quality content and drive targeted traffic are fooling themselves. Article directories are used to game Google. Ezine Articles is the most conspicuous article directory online. Slap it hard and people will stop using article directories.
Ranking well in the serps still – let me rephrase that – STILL – depends foremost on what links you have pointing to your site. Everyone knows that. G has not found a better way to rank content – maybe they never will. People buy and sell links. If you want to rank well you need links. Google believes that writing quality content will get you links. Sure it will – if you happen to have a site that is information based and you are an authority in your field. The problem is that the majority of sites online don’t fit into this description. Does not an eCommerce site have a right to sell its wares online? Why not? The thing is an eCommerce site is never going to get backlinks from happy purchasers who also happen to own a website and can’t wait to tell their readers how wonderful ABC was in selling them a toothbrush… or oil filter… So what do eCommerce sites do – they buy links. They have too. JCPenny did it and would have likely been left alone (Yes – they spend 30 million a year on adwords but they also happen to be relevant to the keywords they ranked for) had the New York Times not outed them. Overstock.com did it and got spanked. They were outed as well. Can an algorithm pick out all the sites that buy links? Nope. Can a competitor? Yup.
I put up a post yesterday just to make people aware that Google is spending money on manual reviews. Before G spanked EZA they had to be sure that they didn’t act hastily – maybe the content was quality? Spend a little money and review some of the site’s pages and see what the consensus is from paid reviewers. They don’t have to review every post to see a pattern – if 80% of the reviews are negative then they can probably make a few safe assumptions from that data and maybe even find enough common footprints regarding crap content posts that enable them to tweak the algo. This is of course speculation as I don’t know how they decided which pages would be dumped and which would live to see another day.
What I do know is that over the past year I have had a number of readers email me with their own tale of being slapped hard by Google. The first to come forward were the owners of big and successful sites – they all had 10k plus a day visitors, they all made between $5k and $15k a month, they all used adsense, they all had original content and they all had their adsense disabled first and then slowly dropped out of the serps. Did the algo do this? Probably not. They were all in very competitive niches and I am pretty certain they all got reported by the competition or were reviewed by the adsense team. Yes – they all used crappy links – forum profiles and paid links. If the algo can discern these links then they wouldn’t work anymore – but they do. A manual review brought on by complaints would easily see the link manipulation and penalties would be leveled at the sites. And they were. Many of their competitors have link profiles just as shaky but I noticed none used adsense. It is possible that they were manually reviewed by the adsense team and not reported by competitors. Either way – regardless of the content, the sites existed to profit from adsense and were obvious about it. Does Google want to eliminate made for adsense sites? Yes they do but the algo cannot do this on its own. If you are using adsense and questionable linking tactics then you may well get the boot if you make it high enough in the serps to start generating real income. What this threshold is I can’t say but $25/day is probably under the radar – $100/day from a site and you can probably expect a visit at some point. If your links are legit you probably won’t have a problem – if they are spammy then don’t be surprised if you lose your adsense and likely your serp rankings as well. This isn’t all conjecture – I lost 3 of 9 high paying adsense sites this year myself and received two warnings regarding the remaining 6. Guess what – the 3 I lost were all using crappy links to attain ranking. The other six have legit links that have accrued over the years from authoritative sources – media, wikipedia and leading sites in the niche. I never had to build links as the sites grew naturally.
At this point I should clear something up that I saw on a recent Hubpages forum thread. One of the resident experts made this comment;
Its just another theory. Im not sure how Grizz even has an adsense account anymore and Im pretty sure he gets a check from Google’s PR and Propaganda department now
to make up for the massive loss to his splog empire after he received manual review.
Two things… G would never pay me and I never built splogs other than a few I used for demo purposes. My readers built splogs unfortunately and G didn’t much like that and nuked me for aiding and abetting. My sites however have grown and prospered because I have always built original quality sites that have a purpose other than adsense – in most cases they provide legit free info that the competition charges for. This is still the best way to get traffic and real links.
I’ve read a lot of comments similar in tone to the one above and it seems people don’t quite get me – I’m not telling you to stop what you are doing – I’m telling you to catch up. What worked in 2008 still works… until you get outed or rise above the radar. If your sites never make it to the big leagues then you have little to worry about but if you find your sites on page 1 for some competitive terms that drive traffic and produce income then you had better beware of the competition. If you are still using 2008 linking tactics then you may be in for a surprise. I’m not telling you this because Google wants me to – I’m telling you this for the same reason I always have – to fleece your pockets. My methods worked in the past as most of you learned and was worth every penny I charged you – funny that people don’t want to listen now. Am I charging too much?
So what exactly am I saying?
Use the knowledge you have acquired, take into account the fact that G will likely review a successful site at some point and make sure you are comfortable having it critically evaluated. I have a small group of readers (Lisa, Kimberly, James, Les etc) who recently asked me to check out their sites – I have and for the most part they all have very good content and provide useful info. I haven’t replied to each individually as I can do so here and perhaps help a few others out at the same time. All the sites (there are 23 in the list) are in one of the following categories; Weight Loss, Insurance, Finance/Banking – Mortgages or CD rates and the ever popular MMO. 23 different people and yet only 5 niches – niches that are known for spam since they are also known for being profitable. Almost everyone is using Adsense (a couple are lead gen sites) and have made some headway for a few popular keywords but haven’t quite reached the “holy shit I’m making big bucks” stage. Let me say this to all – look at page 1 of the serps for your keywords and notice the type of sites G has listed. Most but not all are legit sites in the sense that they are real insurance companies and real banks and real producers of weight loss products. The MMO niche excepted – everyone is a crap site. Now also notice most of the competition doesn’t use adsense – they are selling their own products or services. And you are trying to get page 1 ranking for an info site plastered with adsense…
My point – you may make coin from some of the long tails you rank well for but don’t pursue page 1 ranking for the main keywords. You will get destroyed if you ever succeed and all your work will be lost. Some times you are better off hovering close to but not attaining the top positions – best to stay under the radar and reap what you can for months and years rather than make payday that will be short lived. Yeah I know – F**k you Griz – I’m going for it anyway – what do you know?
I’ll tell you one thing I do know – the friends I’ve met online that are doing well and will continue to do well all have niches that are far removed from the spam topics mentioned above and cater to… drum roll… women and kids. In fact most of the successful marketers I know are women. I live with three females – a wife and two daughters (condolences accepted – thanks) and I am amazed, on a daily basis, about what women find interesting and what they will spend money on. Have any of you guys heard about “silly bands”? Do you know how elaborate kids birthday parties are these days – my wife has no problem spending a small fortune on them. Apparently this is common to mothers everywhere.
Two years ago big business hadn’t caught on to IM – today the big brands are dominating the landscape. Their money buys all the SEO’s they can get their hands on and will eventually own the big niches and most of the long tails that go with them. And G is ok with that as they are still happier with JC Penny ranking number 1 for “bed linens” – gamed or not – than having Bob`s no name adsense site in the top spot. This is the new reality but it doesn’t mean that Bob can’t make a living online. Bob has to find a niche that isn’t brand orientated and there are millions to chose from – start with those that kids and their mothers are interested in. I’m not joking – it works for me. The thing is most of you won’t – you are planning to rank #1 for “Payday Loans” come hell or high water and that’s the end of it. I wish you well.
I say this in all seriousness – many of you have been at this for a few years or more and have shown you are in it for the long haul. Do yourself a favor and stop spinning content, building MFA’s and spamming link profiles – you have enough of those nickle and dime sites – spend at least part of your time (and it is time consuming isn’t it folks?) working on something that will last. You can thank me in 5 years.
I have a ton more to talk about – Facebook – Tests – You Guys – but this is long enough – I hand the crown of “Long Posts” over to Dave at his Marketing blog – always a fun read but pack a lunch… (If you want to lesson your dependence on Adsense he has a lot of free info monetizing with Amazon – huge resource you should read – no sales crap.)
be back…
Cheers
Griz
Oh here we go now there will be a zillion “pink laptop for girls” sites – and what will that do with the quality of the SERPS *sigh*. Must say this time I see the psychology behind G’s actions – its a very clever smoke screen that seems to work better and better.
iPad Lis… a pink iPad… laptops were so last year… keep up wouldya’
oh geeze now you told everyone my new niche *sob*
I thought your new niche was “Earthquake Online News Directory” – haven’t had a chance to talk but hope all is good with you and yours in NZ Lis.
Yup all is good – the interesting thing with Earthquake news is that although I’ve done best with Google traffic – I have also got quite a lot of visits from direct type ins (it went viral and people were emailing the link – I know because a colleague sent it to my partner without knowing our relationship) and – …drum roll, f*iking facebook . Lots of traffic – but the buggers don’t click the ads.!
great post as usual. i had to read a few sections more than once to make sure i understood correctly, but it was well worth it. i was just wondering if you could offer your readers a few suggestions on what helps an MFA convert to legitimate website? i have a website which teeters the line of MFA in a profitable non-competitive niche.
once i begin to make (some) money i wanted to add some customized video tutorials, professional redesign, products, one of a kind online apps, reviews and much more.
the problem with this whole issue is that many people have MFA sites and would be willing to put in the work to make them more legit but don’t know where to start. I just wanted to know if you have any other suggestions on how to move from spammy to legit without scrapping your whole site?
AJ – you just answered your own question “i wanted to add some customized video tutorials, professional redesign, products, one of a kind online apps, reviews and much more.”
Build sites that are more than just articles framed with adsense and make its presence known in its niche – however it takes.
thanks. its good to know i’m on the right track!
I’ll like my only site to be review grizz…
will you?
Send me an email weput.
I might have forgot to check the box on my last comment. So it probably thinks I am a spammer.
First, Grizz, thank you for always being real. You never took a dime from anyone and always provided great info for free, which got you noticed (and hated).
Yes it is about links and good content. I write 99.99% of the content on the site. Once or twice I allowed a guest post and I was quite picky with how it read and looked.
We do have Adsense on our site, but we also have a service. I have written articles on Ezine and some other sites, but I also have links from other places. Even some reciprocal links from friends in the industry.
We are in a Niche that can be spammy, but I know of quite a few sites that set themselves apart by giving away loads of free information. They compile information and make it easy to determine where to find good deals.
But as you mentioned, the frustrating thing is the Big Lie from G. Just write good content and people will link to you. That is bull. You have to promote your site. But then you probably also need to promote your promotions.
Grizz, do you still believe in the value of manual link sharing? That seems to me to be one of the better options at this point for site promotion.
Thank you again for all of your honesty. We do appreciate it.
cd :O) (sorry, I couldn’t out run my destiny. My initials dictated my niche.)
Chris – if you can find links from relevant quality sites then cross promotion is as legit as it gets – but not in the footer or sidebar. Recommend them for something and they recommend you – in context of course and relevant to the theme.
There, take that Google! Good post, Griz, and a good and well deserved slap on the brain bucket of today’s top dog search engine.
It is clear that Google is politically more in favor of keeping up its income flow than doing the right thing by the bloggers and other websites that have put them–Google–where they are.
Google is even getting in bed with the political powers so it can have a hand in deciding how the internet will be regulated. Not good.
There is a new kid on the block that just may knock Google off its high-and–mighty perch. That new kid is blekko.com. Blekko gives you the inside scoop on whatever you choose to search. It is a very interesting and useful search engine. It has not crawled as many URLs as Google has yet, but it is working on it, and it will crawl what you ask it to crawl. Weird, huh? Well, not really. It wants to serve its users by providing the information they want; not hiding much of it like Google. Check it out.
Thanks for all you do bloggers.
Say, I like your comment form set up, especially the “NOT a spammer box.” What is the plugin called?
Lawrence – it’s here https://www.growmap.com/growmap-anti-spambot-plugin/
Amazing plug-in – I went from 200 plus spam comments daily on this site to zero – best plugin I ever added to a site. Glad you asked.
I’m very familiar with Blekko – still playing with it and get the sense that outside the tech circles its a dud – too much crap to learn for the average civilian who like Google for its simplicity.It also sucks as a plain old search engine – I have 2 sites that it still hasn’t indexed (over a month) that G and Bing indexed the day they were created. It has all sorts of cool bells and whistles that I actually like but it can’t crawl the web worth a shit – I’m giving it time to improve however… patience…
Nice to see you drop in Lawrence – hope things are good.
thanks for the recommendation Griz! I’ve been using Captcha for months, but spam comments(and automated spambots) are still flooding, I’ll try the one that you’d listed above.
kinda like check the box stuff pop-up…
Ariston – this stops spam dead – who knew bots can’t check a simple little box? There is hope for us humans yet!
There is a new kid on the block that just may knock Google off its high-and–mighty perch. That new kid is blekko.com.
I don’t meant to be rude, but I probably will be anyway. I think you’re existing WAY too much in an IMer bubble. I occasionally step into the IM bubble myself, and this is the first I have ever heard of it. It’s not now, nor will it ever be competition to google, and I will tell you why.
I just spent 22 minutes explaining how to connect to the internet on a wireless connection that had not been connected by that computer before. It’s two clicks. One on the wireless connection manager, and one on the wireless connection to be connected. 2 clicks. 22 minutes.
You may be too deeply in the bubble to believe this, but that is your average computer user. 22 minutes to explain how to successfully make 2 clicks. Most people use either google, or whatever is pre-set as their default search engine, and they don’t know any better than that. They just take what microsoft/the computer manufacturer feeds them and never change a thing.
Now, if I only just heard of blocko or buggo, or whatever, just now and I actually spend time in the IM bubble, what do you think my wife, my dad, my mom, my brothers, or their children know about bloggo?
I’ll tell you what they know about the internet. Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
Uh oh, looks like bongo isn’t on the list. Thanksfully, for many here, these people are NOT in the IM bubble. If they were, they wouldn’t be clicking ANY adsense ads ANYWHERE (I know I don’t). Chances are, they might not even ever see the ads, and that’s assuming that they would ever click through to a page on an informational site anyway.
Spend some time using google the way regular people do. They do have a problem, and many of the people reading here are part of that problem. I spent 4 hours the other nights trying to find something out. I ultimately gave up. NOTHING returned a result that was helpful. In 4 hours of searching.
Stop looking up your rankings for a bit and start actually using the internet a bit, and Big G won’t seem so evil. You might even get the impression that they think their search results suck, and would like to do something to fix it.
If I ever do solve my problem, I will set up a page that holds a relevant answer, and it will rank on the first page, simply for existing. I have done it before. You match the right query on something and provide the only answer there is that is actually helpful, and you’ll be in the top five, and have actually helped someone who would otherwise spend 4 hours before giving up.
I have a feeling that is what google wants.
Hey Fiar – nice to see you about. I’d love to know what you queried that took 4 hours to not find… is there a niche there? lol. I think IBM was just testing Watson on Jeopardy and really plans on turning him/it into G’s nemesis…
Hope all is well old friend.
@Friar
I quite agree with your position. I’ve had similar frustration in time past. Though not 4hours straight like you cos I don’t have such luxury. But then it can really be frustrating when you need to find something online, and then you find yourself going through the labyrinth that has been created by bloggers and Make Money Online authors.
I’m not a fan of Google, but then I agree with you that Google knows that bloggers especially the MMO club members are creating a huge problem for internet users with all those splogs they create.
If you can’t provide good information or value for a keyword, stop shooting for the number one position on the SERP. It is simply annoying having to go from one useless link to another because all the relevant sites have been outranked!
Until you are at the receiving end, you may not appreciate how frustrating it could be.
info[at]makemoneyonlinegrizzly.com or brears[at]mts.net or brears[at]mymts.net
i dunno whichone to use…
The latter is the current one…
already send it to all of them… LOL
sorry for the spam.
info[at]makemoneyonlinegrizzly.com came back (550 550 error… Mailbox quota exceeded)
lol… I’ll have to take a look at that… I do get a bit of email…
I hear ya about the females and the shopping thing. My daughter is 3 yrs old. One of her favorite things to do is sit and brows through her Barbie catalog. I don’t even want to think about when she gets older … with older tastes. lol.
Sent ya an email.
mine is 4 and yes… i spend (well… my wife does) around 60% of our income in clothing and shoes… and every time we get on a store she has a bitch fit when she sees something she wants… eventually ending with it.
to bad been surrounded by girls… specially when you are in the mood of playing resident evil or some other shooter game.
I’ve learned to live among ponies, barbies and fancy pillows.
err, I’m a woman and have never heard of ‘silly bands’ – but then I don’t like buying shoes either, so am probably not typical lol
I’m happy to say however that my niches are off the beaten IM track. I guess there’s something to be said for having weird interests…
Cat… you don’t buy shoes? A DNA test is in order…
Actually, I believe it is silly bandz (shaped rubber bands you use as a bracelet). Don’t worry if you never heard of them, my 14 y.o. daughter says “they are just sooo 2010.”
Lol…
See I always new my girly pretty sites would be ok in then end.
Although I’m starting to move away from Internet Marketing per se for now (What? Shock Horror?) and move back into author mode for a while to see how that pans out. Having your own product and talking about stuff you actually know about might be fun for a while.
But never fear I’ll be back soon enough.
t
Tracey – I’ve heard about your author bona fides… let us know when the movie comes out would you?
Seriously – you should promote your own product and use your social presence to help do it – the perfect niche I think. I have always wanted my own product – I was thinking of creating a small stuffed animal, a bear perhaps, call it Teddy, just don’t think the world is ready for something so out there…
Good Luck Tracey!
Damn I’d like to see a little Grizzly Plush Toy!!!
Missed you Griz! Glad to see that your back to the longer posts. Finished a full cup of coffee lol. I am glad you wrote this because I have set the IM aside the past year since my wife and I split. I am wanting to give it another go since I was almost there before and it would be nice to have the extra cash flow in the end.
But its so true about big biz taking over since I see tons of jobs now looking for SEO people. Sad they only seem to want master degree marketing guru’s but after reading your blog for the past few years im sure I could out do them any how.
People do need to look more openly to the vast amout of different ways you can make money on your sites. Again great post look forward to the next one.
Jason
Jason – the next big business online will be the anti-seo jobs. I just picked up a largish retail client who asked me to document what the 3 SEO firms they hired have been doing with their network. They caught wind of the JCPenny slap and are concerned that they may be exposed as well. My initial findings have been quite illuminating and a real eye opener regarding just what many of these SEO’s are really offering. SEO may be the biggest scam niche online these days and businesses are flocking to them without any knowledge of what they do or any means to oversee and control them.
Yea that is true. Several mom and pop places around where I leave have websites up and running. I service a lot of the places for their security equipment but we always get to talking about their website etc. I am finding one that they are paying through the room for a basic site which is just basically at business card and nothing else. They are told its going to be ranking in the serps when most dont have a single link pointing their way.
As for the JCPenny thing thats one of my largest customers and there corp offices are located about 45 miles from where I live and I heard about them having issues with google awhile back. I actually applied several months ago for a position dealing with SEO. They are looking for the marketing managers who know the workings of the internet though.
My question is us being the small guys on the block is there money still in it for us building the content/info based websites? Or are we going to end up wasting our time in the long run? And from what I am reading if we are to do these sites they should be the so called super sites like Court and Mark mention. I just want to make sure that this time when I start out that I take the right road vs spending hours and hours down the wrong one.
There seems to be a rising tide of what I’m calling “Black Ops SEO”. It’s beyond simply reporting a competitor to Google but extends to various dirty tricks worthy of a spy movie or TV show.
One that I suspect we’ll be seeing a lot more of (and what may have happened in the JCP case) is outing your competition to the mainstream press as a spammer with documented ‘proof’ of their evil doings. It doesn’t matter that the victim didn’t buy the links in question themselves (their competitor or their agents did) but it looks like XYZ Corp is a big spammer and Google has to do something about it!
Basically, it’s going to get ugly, especially in the big time niches and Google has set themselves up for problems by using fear as a weapon and using the press as manual reviewers.
And, yes, you’re right, big companies investing more into in SEO now along with social network marketing.
I agree Frank – the big boys (brands) will be fighting it out on the pages of big media. Too bad we lowly IMers don’t have the money or connections to get the NYT to fight our battles for us – I have a huge list of sites I’d like to send to the NYT but I suspect I’d end up in the spam bin…
I predicted that with all the algo changes — as well as your likely overflowing Email — that an informative post was in the making, and my suspicions were affirmed. This is one of those great articles that I can read over and over to completely digest. (The mid 40′s has a way of inhibiting the absorbency of ALL this information — little, to medium pieces at a time LOL)
Quite frankly I’m somewhat happy to see this “conscious-shocking” link farm clean-up. Am I quivering in fear of any of my sites being slapped? No. And even if “G” spanks any of the article sites I use, so be it! In my opinion its sad to see HubPages go down the toilet via the over zealous spammers. I can only hope that they clean up their act and regain their Google favor?
I’ve always taken your advise and invested the time to read and learn. Hell, anyone who can rank a blogger blog in 1st place for MMO — a niche that returns in excess of 483 million results, I might add — OBVIOUSLY knows what they are doing. When I chose to learn something I seek out and follow the winners, not the pompous bastards who toot their own horn and charge $$ for what should be free. Like you Griz, I have that same attitude when it comes to sharing. . . whatever! You know that, and anyone who knows me quickly learns my true nature.
A lot of people will read this and think your nuts! Not me. Not Leo. Not Lis. Not RT. Not Allyn. etc., etc., etc.
All I can affirmatively say is that I truly appreciate the genuine and true blessing of having met, and knowing you. The information and facts that you provide are priceless – regardless of what some fools think…
Thanks Scott – as long as the fools don’t catch on we should be good. I get the impression that most of us came through the recent slap even or better off – I did – so we must be doing something right.
Thanks for the post Grizz,
As always it is very informative.
I have been thinking a lot about all the chatter from this update and what it really means. You and a few others have been talking for a while now about the changes needed to stay current in this game. Basically, build a real website that offers real value to the customer. You know, like a real business does.
But that is hard work.
Actually, I don’t think it is that hard but it isn’t set out in a spoon fed program. Before I started reading your information I didn’t have a clue what to do to have an online business. I paid money to some of the scam sites but of course didn’t get anything out of that.
Then I read what you had to say and followed Court’s advice and I started to have a little success. It was so easy just step by step. Post a keyword post on your blog, get some keyword links, and hit em with adsense when the surfers show up. It was a program that was easy to follow, made sense, and made money. I wondered though how long it would last when everybody started doing it. While some money can still be made I think times are changing like you said. It is time to move to the next level.
The trouble is the next level is not as laid out. I think that may be what concerns everybody so much. The link game really was easy to follow and if you just stayed up late at night writing you would be successful. This new method is like looking into a black hole. I am back to “What do I do now?” I think that is the big problem, it is not a rote method of monetization. We have to evolve to be business people instead of just link farmers.
You have my undying admiration for the amount of worth you have given to the business. You, and a few others, have given a lot of people hope.
Now it is time for us to figure out the new rules, and the new tricks, to keep making money, but I think it will possible with the information and tools you have provided over the years.
Thank you.
Agrande – nice to hear from you.
As marketers we all know by now what is needed to drive traffic and how to do it. The difference now is mostly cosmetics and thinking a step ahead. Spend time focusing on legit content and finding legit links while the bulk of IMers are still producing garbage that prevailed 2 years ago. That in itself will keep you ahead of the game. As for a playbook – you already have it, you just need to refine it for whatever niche you are targeting. In simple terms – learn how to present your content so it doesn’t resemble the crap your competition is offering.
Hi Griz -
You said; “…legit free info that the competition charges for. This is still the best way to get traffic and real links.” – It needs to be written in letters of gold about a mile high”.
Thanks for again the reminder……
Griz,
Where is that line drawn on “crappy links”? Would these be from article directories, topically unrelated blogs, comments, paid directory listings, or just outright garbage sites used to created automated backlinks and nothing more? The latter is quite obvious I think but some of the others not so much.
Mark – When you check a competitors links you can see pretty easily when the link is legit or not. Was it created by a site owner recommending something relevant in a post? If not your spider sense usually starts tingling.
You’re right Griz, you usually can tell if it’s an honest link or a manufactured one. You noted you lost 3 adsense sites using “crappy links” and had warnings on two of six others. Of the 3, were these all or predominately poor links or did they have legit links mixed in to some degree? I guess I’m wondering if even a few crappy links (acquired in weak moments of course) would do damage if they are outnumbered significantly with what would be deemed natural links by the Big G?
Thanks for helping sort this mess all out by the way.
You just put your finger on one of my problems.
Most everything I have should fly under the radar except one site that is #1 or #2 for several big boy terms dominated by the big boys. Not exactly sure how I got so high but I know I don’t deserve to be there. I didn’t really plan to be so high but now I am afraid of being reported by a competitor.
I have all 100% content and about 100 posts which I constantly add to but I am making a lot more $$ than I should just because as I said, I don’t deserve to outrank the REAL websites.
I even got offered $75,000 for the website but turned it down. Maybe I should take it and start over.
Jason – are you using adsense?
Your question implies that I should NOT be using Adsense.
I AM using Adsense combined with an affiliate program and making good money with both.
I made six figures with Adsense last year and just had a phone consultation with Adsense for ANOTHER one of my sites which used to be the big earner. That conversation was all about how I can be making more. But the Adsense guy made it clear that his job was to make me (and them) more money and not how to get more traffic. So he was NOT from the Google team that is doing all this slapping.
But this site I am speaking about just zoomed to the top about 4 months ago and stuck there. I was making$40 -$50 a day before that and now that number is over $100 most days which makes me nervous with all the goings on.
Maybe I should pull the Adsense and focus more on the affiliate program. I will take a hit for doing that of probably $1000 to $2000 a month I figure but maybe it should be considered?
Jason – sorry, didn’t mean to imply – was actually just asking as I was curious how you monetized the site. I am very leery of adsense these days and Aaron Wall has a post that encapsulates much of what I think… https://www.seobook.com/can-you-trust-google
I’ve had my own dealings with Adsense reps and don’t trust them – they aren’t looking out for my well being. Read Aarons post. I know that while the rep was encouraging me to spam the shit out of my sites another team member at G was plotting the demise of my site. I can’t tell you what to do but if you can rely less on G and adsense then it’s worth looking at. I’m sure you are testing alternatives and hope you continue with your success.
Thanks for the link.
It’s kind of a new concept to me that I shouldn’t trust a Google rep when they are directly telling me to put more ads up. I guess I will have to think about things and do what I feel most comfortable with. Thanks again.
The problem is if you can’t get irrelevant traffic from Google Search Engines who click adsense ads to find something that’s closer to what they are looking for(“Bait and Switch” or the site is ranked number one so it has to be relevant) then how are you supposed to make money with adsense? It takes a lot to design a workable product. Money which adsense helped to fund.
Then the best link building is building your own network of sites which also costs money.
I don’t know what the threshold is before G visits, but the only messages I get from them are optimization tips to make even more money. UV gets over $25 a day, so I know that isn’t it.
I got those optimization tips messages saying that they have reviewed my blog and found that I was only using 2 Ad blocks instead of the permitted 3 very soon after my earnings surpassed $10 a day for one of my blogs.
The advise was for me insert another Ad block to increase my earnings.
Maybe they take page impressions over earnings as a threshold. Maybe the % of CTR.
Who knows.
I have gotten those also, but only for select sites.
I think they see that your clicks convert so the want you to put in more blocks to make their advertisers more happy.
just my thoughts of course
haha I intend to rank at least on the first page for payday loans. I’m actually on the 4th page as we speak and have been as high as the second page.
When you hit page 1 – let’s talk!
If only a few of the MFA folks would think this article through.
(BTW, I’m still _loving_ Farmer’s so far)
Good point on things like the PayDay loans type of niche. Why would a legitimate site selling payday loans even _have_ AdSense on it? Payday loan ‘buyers’ bring hundreds or thousands of dollars in income onto the ‘store’, the site would send these people away for a few dollars in AdSense clicks? Mind boggling conclusion.
You see a site in a search for ‘payday loans’ that is even running AdSense … MFA spam for sure.
You know most folks trying to make a buck online should invest in a basic business book (you can check them out for free at the public library … not hidden affiliate links here), and learn the principles of setting up say, a retail shoe store, or an oil filter store
.
Online business works exactly the same as ‘dirt-based’, so far as basic principles go. Instead odf worrying what penality JC penney got, it would make a lot more sense to figure out how JC Penney makes their money.
(Spoiler alert)
It ain’t from AdSense)
Well said Dave. Payday loans using adsense is stupid – lead gen is where the money is in that niche. Big money actually but the brands are scooping it up these days.
Time consuming? That’s putting it mildly. I just wrote my first 10K+ word post, and it took me a week to do it (and I know the subject inside and out!).
Also, you have no right to complain about living with a bunch of women when they’re your ready made niche generator.
I tried asking my nieces what was hot with teen girls these days and all I could get out of them was “Bieber!”. I’m soooo not doing a Bieber site. Even if I was suckered into buying Bieber stuff as gifts. I’m hoping he’ll be out before I can get anything ranked anyway.
What’s a Bieber? – Ozzy Ozborne
A Bieber is a Canadian rodent that chews down trees and allows itself to be over marketed to the point that even my 8 year old is sick of it/him/her…
Hey Vixen – yes, the girls help me make money but they spend it faster than it comes in. Just after posting this I had to run to the post office to pick up a large package – surprise surprise, an order from Zappos filled with more shoes… great the other 460 pairs lying around the house must have worn out…
Howard- 2nd best commercial of the SuperBowl.
Griz- Well, you know, everything’s made so cheaply these days.
I only get links from places that we don’t talk about at parties – Jack Nicholson
Seriously, what scares me more than anything is that human review is biased always. it’s like relying on 12 of your peers to find you not-guilty in a trial. If they don’t like your skin color, or they are skewed because of your religious views, they can send your ass to the electric chair.
I know one human reviewer that also happens to be an IMer… imagine if we all took a job at Leapforce… bye bye competition! lol
hi grizz,
always great to hear from you. funny thing, i live on the net, really, but you’re plugged-in like no one else. haven’t a clue what “farmer’s” is all about, but you sure got my attention with this post. oh gawd, for the good ole, free-wheeling days of 2004 before “big daddy”.
Pisces – if you didn’t know about the farmer update then you must be doing things right.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.
Thanks Grizz,
Since you got me in to this whole Facebook thing (urgle) I have been taking some tentative steps to incorporate it in to sites as at least a social validation. I can actually see a lot of promise with it.
Especially the custom url for business pages, checking the serps there are some surprises I overlooked in my dread of social media but I see opportunities aplenty.
Urgh, I feel ill just saying it
Dave – I like FB as a means to communicate quietly between friends in a niche – far more convenient than email or blog posts. I’m not sure how well it can be used for direct marketing but I wish it was around when I had the fishing lodge – it would have worked well in that niche and will in many other closed groups. Ultimately FB is the only thing online that rivals G – imagine if they decided to take on search with gusto…
Glad to see you are willing to give it a try – we just have to find the right use for it.
[...] NEW: Google Best Weapon: Fear by Example [...]
YES! I have heard of Silly Bands. I was quite looking forward to cornering the market. Thanks for smashing that niche to smithereens!
doh
Jaime – maybe there is room for both of us, I get the impression they aren’t widely known yet – oops…
Griz, it is “Silly Bandz”. It ends with a ‘z’ and not a ‘s’. I was in that niche in April 2010 after it was a hot item in a retail store near my home. Since it was new, I ranked my site to number 5 within 3 weeks. I monetized it with adsense and amazon. I was getting clicks ranging from $0.01 – $3.00. It was surprising because those silly bandz cost like $5 per pack. It is very good for amazon because people then to buy a lot because it is cheap, and that can easily put you in the 7.5% commission rate. Or even higher.
This was short lived because google sandboxed my site after 28 days, and I abandoned it.
There is a teen girl that I can call the queen of silly bandz. She updates her blog daily with new silly bandz. She gets a lot of traffic. Some news site gets their info about silly bandz on her site. I can say that she was the one that broke the news of justin Bieber silly bandz.
Justin bieber is another hot name. I made a site on his book and one his nail polish. I make very few sales on the site because I haven’t build enough backlinks. I am even surprised that I am making sales. This shows that girls want to get things associated with the young pop star.
Hey Griz,
As you know, I’m guilty of working the weight loss niche. But while my main site does rank fairly well for some good keywords, my main focus is actually a sub-niche I found in there that generates the bulk of the income. Believe it or not.
And no, I don’t have adsense on the main site or any of its satellites.
I also work other niches. But while I do use adsense on some sites, the bulk of my income comes from affiliate sales of real products (not Dickbank ebooks). The sites are real, topic focused and have all original content written by me.
So I don’t have a problem with manual inspections of those sites. I’ve never resorted to automation or any of the BH tools that some people think I use. Heaven forbid. I think I earned a bad boy image because of The Bike Shed, but actually I’ve always done things the long, manual way.
You said:
“My methods worked in the past as most of you learned and was worth every penny I charged you – funny that people don’t want to listen now. Am I charging too much?”
Damn you were expensive but still better value than those $97 ebooks
Hell, I’m still listening. I spend most of my time building my newer sites that surprise, surprise are based on baby/toddler stuff. Isn’t it amazing how a new addition to the family can open your eyes to markets you never saw before?!! And I concur… they pay rather well too
I do take a few minutes off to be a little social here and there. I even look at that FB thingamabooby now and then and try and figure it all out. The nice thing is that my sky is not falling in. If anything, G’s changes have benefited me by zapping some of the dross competition that was clogging up the serps.
Anyway, I’ll let you get back to your sprogs… (I’m sure that’s what that HP forum poster really meant) and I’ll get back to work myself.
lol don’t shit on dickbank, there are awesome subscription based products there that I’m enjoying(collecting the payments for).
Hey Terry – I snuck in the shed the other day just to spy on you guys. Needless to say I have a half finished email with your name on it that concerned your weightloss site but after reading your comment it isn’t necessary to send. You seem to have a firm grip which isn’t surprising in the least. And yes – having young ones around opens up a whole new world to us old geezers… a profitable one at that.
FB has gone mainstream – my kids know about it (and want on – over my dead body), my wife lives on it and my parents have asked me about it – that is mainstream. Given that, it is worth pursuing just for the sake of finding out if it has a use – its too big to ignore. Twitter on the other hand isn’t main stream – tech, media and celebs use it as well as specific niches but I don’t think it will ever become mainstream – my parents will never be tweeting.
Oh, btw… they are not sprogs these days… more like bizogs…
Ha! Jan spends way too much time on FB too, but most of my close family are computer illiterate and have no idea about it. Lucky them. Sometimes I yearn for that innocent age before computers, mobile phones and Playstations…
When I was a kid growing up in Australia in the 60s, we had open space, bush, a creek and plenty of lizards to catch. TV was limited to maybe an hour a day if we were lucky but most of the time we were out playing with friends. How times have changed. Parents today would have a pink fit if their kids did half the things we took for granted every day. We all lived to tell the tale too!
Anyway, feel free to send that email, I could always use any pointers just in case!
The Shed misses you, although I can understand why you prefer the FB option – easier to reach everyone at once.
PS that antispam plugin is freakin’ brilliant! Thanks for the heads up
Good catch, the SEOBook article. And Aaron has a very good point: how on Earth could sites like askthebuilder.com (that is actually an Adsense success story!!) ever be slapped? The truth is, Google started the Adsense monster, and they, first and foremost, wanted the quick cash from it, encouraging high CTRs and low quality content. Now that everyone is tired of the spammy Adsense sites, they place the blame on everyone else.
Anyway Griz, I really like how you always stay on top of the game.
I actually posted this on facebook earlier but didn’t get it in here. See a comment left by Tim Carter (askthebuilder.com) regarding slap on his site which is the poster child for how to build a site and use adsense on it. His comment is about half way down the page.
https://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=76830633df82fd8e&hl=en&start=40
He sounds really pissed off, and rightfully so. IMHO this algorithm update is a joke and the fact that ehow didn’t get slapped is an embarrassment. Lots of high quality sites get outranked now by scrapers. If anything, this update encourages scrapers and low quality content even more.
Thanks for the post Griz. I know this would just be speculation but do you think this is just the beginning? I wasn’t hit with this Farmers update fortunately, but seeing how some crap sites are still outranking real, legit sites makes me wonder if there will be more waves of smack downs ahead, hurting innocent webmasters with quality content in the process.
Seeing how businesses are actually losing money to the point where they’re having to fire people (Mahola) sorta makes finding a real job appealing again.
Hi Griz, so what kind of links is suitable for my one and only ecommerce site? Thanks
By reading some comments on the webmaster forums, it looks like certain sites without exact match domains were affected more than others. One webmaster points out that a new website of his actually experienced a surge in traffic after the update. I took notice to the fact that this new website had the keyword in the domain. The url that the other more seasoned site had was essentially a random name that noone would search for and I don’t know how it would relate to the content they had on it. Both had original content, but the newer one(related keyword in domain) is the one doing better.
I have a site(3 related keywords in the domain) that wasn’t really affected at all by the change. I also don’t think my content is copied by anyone anywhere either. I’ve also had pages that were liked in Facebook, retweeted, and stumbled by ::gasp:: OTHER PEOPLE. Right after the update it climbed ranks now its kind of bouncing around up and down a few positions. I think Google knows how to “read and interpret” social rankings on the big sites like Facebook, twitter, stumble and whatever the hell else they have out there(noticed this for a little bit now). The trick now for me is to basically make pages that people will stumble and share with their friends. I’ve obtained a few relevant blog links(within the post) from it. The only bad thing is that the stumble traffic does not die it seems. Most people on stumble want to see something “neat” and aren’t looking for anything.
Could it also be that all these content farms had links from other content farms that had links from those content farms and so forth. So when one link is devalued, the next isn’t as powerful and it created a ripple effect on a bunch of sites? Which could be why so many people are complaining they have seen an effect even though their sites aren’t content farms, but alot of their links may have come from them? If so, then search quality was improved, but opened up for a bunch of new people to take ranking. I am just rambling. Don’t know if any of that made sense.
To make the last bit more understandable. Not saying people without content farms were hit because all of their links were from content farms, but sites that linked to them may have had links from links that were propped up somewhere along the lines by sites that were considered to be farming and were getting away with it for years. When one big site is hit, then the next one they linked to just isn’t as important anymore and so on and so forth. I could see how this caused many huge name companies with web presence to be devalued and left a bunch of people scratching their heads.
Lame, dumb or simply brilliant. Seems this latest Google Farmer update will show the world just how advanced or shallow your web content really is. This is the big brew, ha ha seems to have all come to now.
I came across this new search result while doing some keyword research for the phrase “weight loss” under the Advanced Search section a few moments ago.
You now have the ability to include and select “Reading level” as a part of your search parameters. Can you believe this? You’ve been saying it all along Griz. This option is not availabe in the Google’s Instant as yet. I’m sure it’s only a matter of time.
Google is now returning search results based on the following criteria: basic, intermediate and advanced reading levels.
I guess we’d better sharpen our irons or hire expensive, smart ,witty, research writers for our content pages now.
All is not lost though I truly believe. In light of this new discovery, I definitely haven’t given up the hope that “basic” reading level search results will be selected by search users in large numbers here in the US considering the average American reads at the most basic level (myself included).
I didn’t wanted to comment but here I go.
game has changed…
couple of years back when i first got in the online business, webproxys were the shit… they spread like wildfire back then and easily make 300 to 400 dollars in a week…. i even got my facebook account just to promote my damned proxy site…. in the mean time, we got smart priced.
same thing happened here. Articles directories are in fact a service that can/will prevail I think. The problem is that spam articles got out of control fucking up the balance of the force… someone just thought it thru and decided to change the game yet again… anyways, Grizz is to blame as he told the world how and why backlinking worked and told the world he build links with articles directories; so everybody and their mother started doing the same… LOL
my point is…
I’ve learn by reading grizz blogger blog and this one that after I find a keyword that may be profitable, I have to think what kind of use the website will have.. I mean
it is obvious that the internet is full of crap with the only purpose of make a penny from adsense. millions of blogs with literally nothing to say… spun content that doesn’t make sense etc etc… big G is hiring people to do human review as Artificial intelligence is not a human intellect replacement forcing stuff to be the way they want it to be. Adsense success stories are just marketing stump used to dragged us to fill the internet with information with the promise of a paycheck.
I feel like I’ll have to blog about as my crappy comment is becoming way to long.
[...] Nailed-It Blog Post And this is more on the recent news hitting the SEO circuit – the manual penalties of JC Penny and Overstock. This time Grizzly gives more reason to believe you shouldn’t worry about it. [...]
[...] Some are already asking whether this Google update mis-fired and Leo points out the winners from the Farmer update are in fact the scrappers (at least short term). I agree with his recommendation though to build niche sites to fill the gaps. But as Griz points out – fly beneath the radar [...]
[...] believe that the content farmer update that spread fear through many is truly an overall algorithm update. However, I also believe that the big sites that [...]
Your next post should be about what noobs should target that won’t get them screwed when they reach the top.
They won’t read what you typed here, you have to cram it down their throats like you do with your golf balls and water
Hey Griz Great Post! I See Your New Site Has Thousands Of Links And A Nice PR Rating Good Job! Just Wanted To Thank You Again For Sharing Your Experience And Wisdom With Everyone For Free! Sharing Your Knowledge Has Changed My Life So A Huge Thank You To You Again!
In Recent Times I’ve Discovered How I Can Manually And Automatically Make Thousand And Thousands And Thousands Of Links Back To Any Site Main Page Or Internal Pages In Days And Weeks And Am Looking At Any Niche Now With A Completely Different Perspective! I Like The Reality That You Can Take Almost Any Niche You Want And Build Thousands Of Sites With Thousands Of Unique Content Pages In Them And Backlink To Them With Thousands And Hundreds Of Thousands Of Anchored Backlinks At Will And Dominate A Niche! Nice To Know You Can Make The Minumum Requirements To Rank In The Top 1000 Results Be A Site With 10k Unique Domain Backlinks To Each And Every Page Of Unique Content And That These Can All Essentially Be One Hit Wonder Throw Away Sites That Rank And Profit Today And Crash And Burn Tomorrow!
I Wonder Now If It’s Possible To Rank A Site #1 In Google For The Search Word Google. Lol.
care to share?
I’ll like to use your method!
Hey Griz, thanks for this post. It’s funny you mentioning the mother/child niche as that’s one I started out in, but dipped away from because it wasn’t producing the results I wanted. I did a few sites and some reviews on hubpages and didn’t see results right away so I left my sites alone. A few months later I noticed my Amazon income had doubled (affiliate links on my mom and baby sites) that of my AdSense income, and it’s still going up each month. So, as you can probably guess, I’ve jumped back in the mom and child niches since…
Faith
Because of the latest algo, I’m under the radar for anything iffy. I should send Matt Cutts a thank you card. The sites I’m not under the radar for have to do with women and children, because that just happened to be what I was interested in. There’s a lot to be said for accidentally stumbling into success.
BTW, I hope you got my e-mail about Augusta. I was sincere in my offer but I doubt we’ll live there by 4/5. The sale is going well, but the transaction is traveling at a snail’s pace. We’ve had to postpone our house-hunting trip to next weekend as a result.
There’s always 2012 though.
Griz…I highly suggest you take advantage of Carla’s offer to visit Augusta or I’ll lose all respect for you. (other than you IM advice of course)
Feeling a little pain right now Griz–I had quite a stable of Hubpages and was making some really good Adsense coin, but after the Farmer thing (whatever it’s called) my page impressions (and income) were cut by about half. Oh, well. That’s the nature of the beast. One thing that didn’t change was a stupid niche site I built with about 5 posts–it still ranks number one for its main keyword, and it still pulls in clicks at an average of over two bucks a pop. Funny thing about it is that the domain I built it on is a eight-year-old, pre-owned domain with AUTHORITY links (Wikipedia, BBC, old directories, etc.) pointing to it. Something tells me that the algorithm can’t fuss with that type of authority, so even though it’s a thin site with above-the-fold ads, it kept its rank b/c it’s in a semi-popular niche–just enough to be under the radar, but I’ve still been able to make some good bank from it. Moral of the story? Authority links and domain authority still rule the day. Just my two cents.
Thanks for the great post. I agree – target those who are willing to spend. Now to figure out what women REALLY want…
Hey Grizzly, I noticed my “Happy Hour” trackback doesn’t have a link back like the others – is there an SEO reason?
You would mention silly bands. My #2 collects them. But the kids are moving on to other things. I have a conversation with both my girls and my wife on a weekly basis on what they see on TV, magazines, what they talk to their friends about, what they are buying, gossiping about, etc. About the only websites I’m building anymore is from intelligence gathered from the front lines of popular culture and consumption. I failed miserably wallowing among the herd in all all the tried and true niche sites. I stopped the madness around 6-9 months ago as you might have guessed reading the nonsense on my blog.
Like I always said… girls are in boys are pooh. Go me and my fashion niches. Although I have been considering an MMO. I’ll let you know how it goes. (Spoiler: It’s going to be girly!)
Great post Grizz, you make some good points. I agree about not being able to rank on the front page when you’re facing legit sites. It’s similar to life insurance, you’re never going to rank at the front even if you’ve got a 2000 word post. Trying to monetize it with adsense wouldn’t make sense, you need to offer a real service.
Looking forward to your future posts.
Grizz,
I came across your boring ass ugly blogspot website a year or so ago was totally impressed. I never listened to you and chased every damn guru on the net offering how to lie cheat and still from the big G. Gsnip..this and Annihilation that. Autocontent Crap…blah!
But I did remember one thing that you said….The only ebook worth buying was Nomads Guide. I got it. Then found Splork’s blog and man he got me so riled up and laughing so hard reading his blog. Had to keep my kids away because the language was,well you know! He pointed me back to you too.
So here I am full circle. I signed up for The Keyword Academy. No bullshit on that site. I found a few references to “Your Greatness” too. Am I smart or what for finally listening to you?
So, where I should I send the check for all the bs stuff that I will not be buying this year? Where is the up sale on this blog? One time only offer never to be seen again? I think it’s all them damn IM gurus that are never seen again after they sell you their crap!
So here is my impression of you (physically) you are some hairy assed guy about 7 feet tall weighing in at 400 or so pounds. You probably drink beer for breakfast and eat raw grub worms on the side.
Thanks again for your wise (and sometimes wise ass) advice.
>>Those owners and writers who pretend they exist to provide quality content and drive targeted traffic are fooling themselves.<<
Hal-le-flipping-lu-jah.
If I read ONE more forum post by self righteous EA publishers on how the recent changes will "weed out the trash," I think I'll tear out my hair AND toenails. They take themselves SO seriously. You'd think they were competing for a Pulitzer.
As for the "mom" niches, yes, the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world AND writes the checks. (You can quote me ;P )
A group of moms can make or break a business (or a web site.)